diff --git a/reflections/get-set/get-set-test.js b/reflections/get-set/get-set-test.js
index 529ba30..2fc0f58 100644
--- a/reflections/get-set/get-set-test.js
+++ b/reflections/get-set/get-set-test.js
@@ -90,3 +90,18 @@ QUnit.test("setValue", function(){
 
 	QUnit.deepEqual(obj, {value: 2}, "can.setValue");
 });
+
+QUnit.test("splice", function(){
+	var arr = ["a","b"];
+
+	getSetReflections.splice(arr, 0, 1);
+
+	QUnit.deepEqual(arr, ["b"], "removes item with no additions");
+
+	arr = ["a","b"];
+
+	getSetReflections.splice(arr, 0, 1, ["c", "d"]);
+
+	QUnit.deepEqual(arr, ["c","d","b"], "removes item with no additions");
+
+});
diff --git a/reflections/get-set/get-set.js b/reflections/get-set/get-set.js
index 604087d..e9fc7a6 100644
--- a/reflections/get-set/get-set.js
+++ b/reflections/get-set/get-set.js
@@ -191,6 +191,10 @@ var reflections = {
 			howMany = removing;
 		}
 
+		if(arguments.length <= 3){
+			adding = [];
+		}
+
 		var splice = obj[canSymbol.for("can.splice")];
 		if(splice) {
 			return splice.call(obj, index, howMany, adding);
diff --git a/reflections/type/type-test.js b/reflections/type/type-test.js
index 5f2b080..468dd3f 100644
--- a/reflections/type/type-test.js
+++ b/reflections/type/type-test.js
@@ -82,6 +82,8 @@ QUnit.test("isMapLike", function(){
 QUnit.test("isMoreListLikeThanMapLike", function(){
 	QUnit.equal(typeReflections.isMoreListLikeThanMapLike({}), false, "Object");
 	QUnit.equal(typeReflections.isMoreListLikeThanMapLike([]), true, "Array");
+	QUnit.equal(typeReflections.isMoreListLikeThanMapLike(undefined), "undefined", "undefined");
+	QUnit.equal(typeReflections.isMoreListLikeThanMapLike(null), "undefined", "null");
 });
 
 QUnit.test("isObservableLike", function(){
diff --git a/reflections/type/type.js b/reflections/type/type.js
index bdeb326..4de0017 100644
--- a/reflections/type/type.js
+++ b/reflections/type/type.js
@@ -453,6 +453,9 @@ module.exports = {
 		if(obj instanceof Array) {
 			return true;
 		}
+		if(obj === undefined || obj === null) {
+			return "undefined";
+		}
 		var value = obj[canSymbol.for("can.isMoreListLikeThanMapLike")];
 		if(value !== undefined) {
 			return value;